So, last week’s Triple Glazing Question debate really got people talking. Further doubt was cast over the viability of the product. However, a good friend of mine based in Scotland, Mark McLean (@markmclean41) is a big fan of triple glazing and disagreed strongly with the information that came out of the forum. So, he has penned his own post on triple glazing, including stats and figures to argue against what was discussed last week. One thing is clear, the industry is still polarised on this issue! Enjoy the read…

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Contemporary Triple Glazed Installation – Richard Hawkes Eco Arch
(installed by our fitters, featured on grand designs)

Contemporary Triple Glazed Installation – Richard Hawkes Eco Arch

(installed by our fitters, featured on grand designs)

My Thoughts

As some of you may or may not know I’m an advocate of triple glazed windows. Not only that, I sell thousands of them a year, and only triple glazing at that.

A few days ago the first triple glazing debate was held, so I thought it would be fitting to give my own thoughts and opinions on the subject and possibly quash some of the rumours and myths that have;

* Transpired from the event

* installers may have heard through the grapevine.

My Background

I have been in the construction industry myself for just over 12 years first as an architectural technician and then as a designer of energy efficient buildings.

During my time designing energy efficient homes I discovered products such as Internorm (innovators in triple glazing) and Solarlux (innovators of energy efficient Bi-Fold Doors) and since I have never looked back.

My Business

Today I run the largest Internorm franchise in Scotland (Callum Walker Energy Source), as well as glazing we also supply Solarlux doors and garden buildings as well as Biomass.

In the two and a half years that I have been running this business I have never sold a single double glazed window, also, I have only ever sold one UPVC set of frames, everything else has been composite or aluminium clad UPVC and all have been to a U value lower than 1.1.

A typical triple glazed display in my showroom:

What am I trying to say?

I, as an architectural technician firmly believe that the days of double glazing are coming to an end and people now, more than ever want something extra, something more energy efficient, and something which sets them aside from the rest of the jones’s out there!

The fact of the matter is, when I set out in business a few years ago I wanted access to a product that would place my business in a different genre from the others, looking at the changing building regulations, the rising energy costs in the uk and the requirement for premium products I decided to go for triple Austrian made, pretty expensive triple glazed units and so far so good it’s worked and we have been very successful with the products which we display.

The only way to progress in this industry is triple glazing, i firmly believe that in the next 5 years the UK construction industry for new build properties will simply not allow Double glazed units anymore, the standards will be far more stringent!

So now for the facts: what have I learned about triple glazing!

Energy General

From the research and the case studies that I have completed we now know for FACT that (for products such as Intermorm) specifically their units and systems with an OVERALL u value below 1.0 could save as much as 30% on the buildings heat loss compared to using a standard double glazed unit with a U Value of around 1.8-2.0 (the minimum standard in Scotland is 1.4, however on retrofit we generally find were replacing units up to the age of 7-10 years old), this calculation can be completed very easily. Simply take a conventional U value calculator, input room sizes and stipulate the existing window U Value, this will give you an overall heat loss, now copy and paste the same calculation but this time input a U value of around 1.1, its plain to see the difference.

When you factor into this things like fuel costs like oil and electricity, which are common place in Scotland due to our remote “off gas and grid” properties, this can mean that an average property could factor back the ADDITIONAL cost of upgrading from double to triple in between 3-4 years.

Energy Gains

In the Passivhaus industry (the stable point and go to example of zero carbon construction) triple glazing is one of THE single most important factors, it’s the only area of the construction that:

  • Assists air tightness of the build

  • Is a generator if energy (solar gain)

  • Preserver of energy (U Value)

  • Restricts thermal bridging (composite insulated frames)

Taking into consideration the U and G Values, this is where the WER code is simply rubbish, how can you possibly have a window with a U Value of 1.8 (A) and then have a window with a U Value of 1.0 or 0.8 and the window with the U Value of 0.8 be band (B) or(C)

Having a high G Value and maximizing solar gain is good (when its warm) what happens when its cold? The human body can feel differentials in temperature of as little as 4 Degrees Kelvin, SO in the winter when its cold and you have a room temperature of 21, and the external temperature is 0 or -2 the internal surface temperature of the glass on a double glazed window will be about 14-16 degrees celsius. To the occupant this will feel like a draft….it will feel cold.

If you take the same situation and temperatures and then replace the units with triple glazing the internal surface temperature of the glass will be around 19-20 degrees celsius, much warmer in comparison!

The user of the property still get 60% solar gain, They get far better heat retention in colder months they prevent overheating in warmer months, they limit the chance of condensation and overall, they get a much nicer living environment.

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Annotated heat loss for a typical home:

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Annotated Cold Penetration:

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Typical Cold Bridge Movement Comparison

Build Quality and Guarantees

We all know that manufacture such as  Porsche, Saab, BMW and Audi are big brands In Europe Germany and Scandinavia these brands run rings round us (Great Britain) in terms of product engineering and development in the car industry, the window manufacturing process in these parts of the world are no different. The way they are packaged, the service kits that they provide as standard, the installation manner that they must be installed in and the network of support and options available in terms of physical frame size, you can just do more with triple. Yes I know that we all hate when our clients come out with the following two words: “Grand Designs”. However nine times out of ten most of the stuff on there is German, Scandinavian or Austrian, we can now access a single glass sliding door up to 3.5 meters high and wide IN ONE PANE. I have tried to get products like this from the UK but they are simply not available and the ones that are simply to not meet the standard.

When you use bigger glass units you need better U Values, when you need better U Values…you need triple!

Then there are things like guarantees! As standard European products are better made, greater engineered and are usually aluminium clad, this means that the life expectancy of a triple glazed composite UPVC/Aluminium clad and Timber/Aluminium windows are far greater than conventional UPVC double glazed units, the average offering from Europe is around 30 years life cycle with minimum maintenance (no painting) only lubrication of the hinges and keeping the glass clean!

I can now Guarantee a client that in 30 years, if any component of their window breaks I can ensure replacement, that’s pretty special!

Typical Delivery Standard

Price Comparison

Yes, triple glazed windows are more expensive than UPVC double glazed units BUT they are twice the product when you see them up close (I have attached a couple of images below which show a standard Internorm Section) when you then add in the fact that they are more energy efficient, they have a better guarantee, a longer lifespan, and in my opinion they look better too……I think that the cost difference is justified.

On several occasions now I have prices against double glazing manufacturers, big ones as well, names such as Everest, Sidey, CR Smith who have all quoted customers UPVC double glazing with a U Value of 1.4, i can still make a good margin, deliver and install the product for the same price and my product hands down will beat the competition in terms of guarantee, build quality and U Value. Yes I know the names I have used are maybe a bad example as the sales guys there are notorious, but it’s still promising!

There is plenty of margin in this product for the customer to be happy, your business to make money and for you to remain competitive, we just have to remember that 4 windows and doors for £999.99 if not the future and the product will most likely cause more problems than its worth.

Installation

This one made me laugh yesterday when I read the live feed: when I fit projects and I fit large glass units, I only ever have two fitters on site at one time. SOMETIMES I have the luxury of 3 but generally speaking my fitting teams work in teams of two.

Installing triple glazing will not put companies out of business, it just means that you have to approach installs in a different way, and in some cases you have to walk away from jobs if people are not willing to pay the price of a quality installation, irrespective if your fitting triple or double that should be the case!

For the bigger units we sometimes have to hire in Glass lifters, to buy these lifters might set you back around £3-4k, however you can hire one for a couple of days for around £400.00, yes its an additional cost but in general they make life easier, on big installs they could pay for themselves in around 2 installations if you price the project correctly.

Be An Innovator

In would be lying if I said I did not turn away a lot of business (because i do not have access to double glazing) but the truth is i don’t want to be in an industry where i can lose a job for £50.00, i set my stall out as being a premium supplier of Europe’s largest glazing and system manufacturer, i wanted to be an innovator and not go with the trend and it has worked.

I think it could work for the rest of the industry too, lift your company above the parapet of double and give yourself the chance to make good margins in an industry that’s is only ever going to grow – be an innovator.

When the boom comes everyman and their pet pig is going to jump on the bandwagon and look like they are clinging onto the coat tails, the solar panel industry was the perfect example of this. Set your stall out now and be one of the companies that was involved from the start.

So now for the fiction…

I could be here all day talking about the rubbish I hear speaking about triple glazing, the facts are above and they are all online also, god, there is even an entire building standard based directly off of the back of triple glazing.

With this said I thought I would bullet point the issues that know not to be true, and should anyone want me to elaborate on these i would be happy to do so.

  • The windows are heavier but it should not cost you any more to install a triple glazed window over a double glazed window over time with an experienced installation team.

  • Triple glazing can be price competitive with double glazing based on a similar frame make up.

  • Construction of UK house types will 9 times out of ten accept retro fitted triple glazed units even in cases where you have to use 54mm units

  • This is not just a phase, their business now throughout the uk that turn over millions of pounds per year purely making their living from installing triple glazed continental units, building standards are changing and soon a standard 1.4-1.2 window simply will not be what is required.

  • There is plenty of margin in the triple glazing product if your business is geared correctly to sell and install it.

  • Germany and Austria are very easy countries to deal with in terms of conducting business as is Scandinavia, their second language in most cases is English.

  • I think the UK is more than ready to start manufacturing good quality triple glazing….we invented the Telephone, have designed some of the worlds best bridges and created numerous vaccines to prevent world disease and famine…..surely we can adjust our tooling to accept an extra 20mm on our glass units and an extra slab of material for our frames. (my company now has a window which we designed with a profile to match standard triple but to accommodate a 44mm unit, compared with double…..its costs and extra £22.00 per unit)

  • Salesmen find it hard to sell, after 3 years my guys would not sell anything else!

Rant over…..breathe and reflect!

Now I know that UPVC double glazing is the backbone and stable point if the glazing industry, however, I think it’s in everyone’s interest to start promoting the benefits, offer something different, and put your business in the forefront if energy saving technology.

Yes timber composite triple glazed windows they are more expensive, and yes they are not the go to product at the moment but they soon will be, all I’m saying is lets not knock it before we have tried it.

What annoyed me about yesterday is that we kept making comparisons to double glazing, what we should have done is compare our buildings and our energy wastage to that of Germany and Scandinavia, have a manufacturer from one of the big suppliers come in and tell them what they have experienced.

Internorm manufacture hundreds of thousands of frames per year, they export all over the world to places such as:

  • Spain

  • Italy

  • Russia

  • Germany

  • Holland

  • France

  • America

  • Greece

Now we can use the excuse that all of the countries above are colder and wetter than us can we? We can’t say that in all of those cases their construction methods etc are better than ours, so why is then that almost 90% of what Internorm send to those countries is triple glazed and the remainder double?

It’s not a fad it’s not going to pass quickly and it’s not a gimmick. Its the future and i think we should get on board, push it and try and make a name for ourselves for once as being a country who doesn’t get left behind.

Within the next 5 years U-Values in Scotland will be required to be below 1.1, it’s already difficult to get an A rated, double glazed window to 1.3 never mind going the extra mile to 1.1!

I have said my piece on this and I have chastised about triple glazing before but what I really want to know is: what’s holding the industry back? What is putting you guys in the front line off installing this type of product and would you if you had the correct network of support there?

I can help with these set backs if you want?

As always, I welcome your comments and criticism on the matter!

Twitter: @markmclean41

Email: mark@energy-source.co.uk

Web: www.energy-source.co.uk