Thursday was an odd day in blog terms. The post written for Thursday, about PVC in conservation areas, was overshadowed by the post written the day before that. Doesn’t usually happen, but the comments and reaction to that post did produce a rather good idea from Garry at St Johns Windows in Worcestershire.
The idea…
This was the comment and idea Garry submitted to that post:
How to clean up the industry is very simple if all companies work together. End fabricator or trade counter (who ever deals with the installer) can only supply the goods if the installer is FENSA / CERTASS etc registered or already got the building notice registration for the property where installation will take place. Very simple to check and would stop the supply to non regulated companies safe guarding the public. This in turn would be easier for trading standards or one of our many trade bodies to inspect as they could walk into bigger companies and check that all the paperwork is in order.
The clean up will not work from the bottom up needs to come from the top down.
This is my view and hope people will side with me.
His idea boils down to this: no certificate, no product. A simple, enforceable way to ensure that genuine businesses get their products and cuts the non-compliers out completely.
The implementation…
As far as the idea goes, it should be fairly easy to implement. If the stockist/fabricator/trade counter has a computer, its feasible that they can ask for the certification number from the installer, be it FENSA or whatever system Certass use, then cross reference that number by checking it online. If they match up, that can be classified as a pass and products be delivered as normal.
Anyone who isn’t registered with a self-certification body, which they should be, won’t match a cross-reference check and won’t get their product.
Abuse of a system like that would be unlikely as the rogue installer would have to go to some lengths to bypass it and fool their fabricator.
So basic IT and a database is effectively all that would be needed to make this idea work. Both of which already exist. This idea from Garry I think is one that has to be explored. If anyone from the GGF and FENSA is reading this today, please take a minute to explore this idea and see how easy it would be to create. On the surface it shouldn’t be that difficult. The theory of the idea is simple and sound.
As an industry we do actually have the tools to cut out the rogues altogether. It’s just using those tools in the right way. I believe the idea Garry has suggested is that way. If anyone from any of the bodies reading this could give DGB and it’s readers some feedback on this I am sure we’d all be appreciative of that. Please leave them in the comments section below.
Responding on behalf of the Assure competent persons scheme we welcome any initiative that drives up standards, helps legitimate installers and squeezes the rogues. We need to differentiate between identifying those installers that are registered with a CP scheme (the first step of compliance) and then whether work is registered with a scheme to enable the issuing of a Building Compliance Certificate (this is sent on completion of the works). Installers of course have every right to register work direct with Building Control Departments if they wish which is a further complication. There is an on-line competent persons register that… Read more »
There is another issue that really needs addressing, I came across this when I moved house last year. The windows on the house had been installed by the previous owner who said he was a “builder”. There was no FENSA/Certass or building control for them and my solicitor asked what I wanted to do. I asked for the local building control to inspect. The solicitor said “we don’t do that, we will get them to p[ay for an insurance indemnity policy”. They supplied this. I know that the windows do not comply with regulations and would not pass. I had… Read more »
I agree with Martin’s comments – that sort of policy is a nonsense in the first place and should not be there as a ‘get out of jail card free card’. If there has to be one it should be say £500 that went to the Building Control Dept rather than a wider local authority budget for use in policing the Regs. Dream on though
In reply to Martin, the problem you refer to Solicitors were to stop the sale of the house when no certificates were available not to turn round and sell a policy. In practice this was never going to happen. FENSA / CERTASS etc have taken many millions of pounds out of the industry over the last twelve years and as you say many products / installations do not comply. This is why starting with suppliers we have to clean up our industry.
If we are looking to weed out cowboys , we should be starting with those who write the scams that allow the issueing of the certificates , never mind the guys at the coalface. This industry and its customers are being fed a pack of lies from the very top , how everyone can stand up with a holier than thou position is a touch rich . Yes I believe lots of companies do try very hard to be open and honest , but who can deny sales to anyone wanting to buy who has the money to do so.… Read more »