I have sent the following e-mail to Mr Tyson Anderson in response to his article in the latest issue of the GGP magazine with regards to trickle vents:
“Dear Mr Tyson Anderson:
I work for a double glazing installations company in West Yorkshire and was particularly interested in your article about trickle vents in response to Paul Jervis’ in the last issue.
Some of the points you mentioned in your article I failed to agree with. One of the major issues installations companies have with trickle vents is that when we have tried so hard to produce and install the best energy efficient windows possible, we find it completely contradictory to install trickle vents which badly affect the efficiency performance of the window. Once the windows with trickle vents are installed, the feedback from our customers is that they don’t use them. They find them ugly, unsightly, unnecessary, and that if they wanted ventilation, they would open a window. This is the second major issue, customers despise them. In your article, you mention that we should be up-selling the benefits of trickle vents to customers. The problem here is that to a customer there is no obvious benefit.
In the middle of your article, you go on to say that many of the social housing organisations have chosen to fit trickle vents on all their replacement windows as standard over the past twenty years. I agree with you that this perhaps was a sensible option, possible because they could see the restrictive new ventilation laws on the horizon. But this is an easy option for them because they have the power to install windows to their own specifications. On the residential/homeowner end of the market, the task of trying to sell trickle vents is much harder. To reinforce that point, out of the three and a half years I have worked in sales, I have had only ONE customer ask for trickle vents to be put back into the new windows.
There is then also the cost issue. We sell trickle vents at a price of £15 per vent (inc VAT 15%). Now imagine a larger size installation that may require 20 of them. That’s an extra £300 for ‘flimsy, unsightly’ trickle vents. You must agree that from a customer point of view that is a very large pill to swallow for what they are and for how little they will be used.
Perhaps we are wrong, perhaps the installation end of the industry is missing out on some major selling points and benefits. But this is why I have sent this e-mail.”
It will be interesting to see if I get a reply!
UPDATE – 6/5/21:
The above is an opinion piece on trickle vents. A new article has been published on DGB with up to date information on ventilators, their use, the reasons for their use and how new regulations set to be unveiled in the Future Buildings Standards will see vents used more often in fenestration. Please visit this link to find out more: https://www.doubleglazingblogger.com/2021/05/trickle-vents-all-you-need-to-know/
UPDATE – 28/2/23:
Building Regulations on trickle vents were updated in June 2022. In response to the major changes that were implemented last year, the Government published an FAQ document with the aim of trying to answer some of the basic questions around ventilation:
1. Can background ventilators be installed through a wall to meet the Part F requirements, instead of installing trickle ventilators in windows?
Ventilation can be provided through any appropriate means. Installing a background ventilator through a wall that provides the equivalent areas described in Approved Document F, volume 1 can be an acceptable route to compliance.
2. What do I need to do if I already have a wall ventilator in my room?
When replacing a window in a room where there is already a wall ventilator present which meets the minimum equivalent areas in Approved Document F, volume 1, no further background ventilation needs to be added after replacing the windows.
Where there is an open-flued appliance in the room, there should be permanently open air vents to supply the air for combustion. These air vents are there to meet Part J requirements. These air vents should not be considered as existing ventilation for Part F and therefore extra vents should be installed.
3. Is a window with night-vent capability a suitable solution for background ventilation when replacing windows?
Providing a night-vent (also referred to as a night-latch), where a window can be locked slightly ajar, is not an appropriate background ventilation solution. This is because windows locked on the night-latch do not provide a sufficiently secure means of background ventilation.
4. When replacing windows, can the Building Regulations requirements be met through a homeowner signing a disclaimer that they will install background ventilation at a future date or that they do not wish to have any installed?
For work to comply with the Building Regulations, all requirements must be met in full.
Members of competent person schemes self-certify that their work complies with the relevant requirements of the Building Regulations including Regulation 4(3). The work can only be certified by a member of a competent person scheme if the work complies with the Building Regulations, which includes the requirement that ventilation for the building has not been made less satisfactory as a result of the work.
A disclaimer signed by the homeowner stating that they do not wish to have background ventilators or that they will be installed in future is not a suitable way of complying with the Building Regulations. Work must comply with the Building Regulations and competent person schemes must monitor their registrants and take action against any registrant who is found to have carried out non-compliant work.
Purchasing an indemnity policy is also not a suitable alternative to meeting the requirements of the Building Regulations in full.
5. Will trickle ventilators allow noise and air pollution into homes?
Without good ventilation, there will be more substances in the air that can cause harm to people. This includes pollutants from cooking, cleaning products, hygiene products and fabric furnishings. Diluting pollutants generated inside the home using ventilation is necessary, but importantly, outdoor air quality affects indoor air quality. There is also a high risk of mould in homes which are poorly ventilated.
Approved Document F, volume 1 describes how ventilation systems should be designed to minimise the intake of external air pollutants, by locating ventilation intakes away from the direct impact of the sources of local pollution. Guidance on minimising the intake of external pollutants can be found in paragraphs 2.2 to 2.9 of Approved Document F, volume 1. Trickle ventilators can be located on the less polluted side of the building to reduce the ingress of outdoor air pollution.
We appreciate that noise may be an issue with façades facing noisy environments. We recommend that noise attenuating background ventilators are fitted in these circumstances, as outlined in paragraph 1.54 of Approved Document F, volume 1.
View the full article on DGB: https://www.doubleglazingblogger.com/2022/06/government-publishes-faqs-on-new-trickle-vent-regulations/
>Personally, I hate trickle vents with a passion. Can't see the sense in punching holes in energy efficient windows that allow heat out and cold in? Even when closed, they are not well sealed.
It's not like your house is air-tight anyway, otherwise we'd all suffocate.
>The problem i have observed, with trickle vents, is the Manufactures in 2 window styles that i have seen, in both one company drilled holes through the Profile, and then put vent covers over, the other company has put the holes through the profile during Manufacturing stage, both may i add, did not put a Sleeve in the holes they made to seal the Chambers there by reducing the thermal efficiency of the Frame, by exposing the Chambers to Air and Moisture including the Centre Chamber that carries the Steel strengthener bars. in order to satisfy building regs, the vents… Read more »
>I'm going to make a wild guess a say that the anonymous comment was left by someone called AnglianEyes?
>Aaargh! My local building control department says I have to have a trickle vent in my new sash window. I agree it seems madness to double glaze and draught proof a window only to invite cold air in again. Also the vents supplied with my window are disgusting to look at and seem to be made of the flimsiest plastic. Since I now HAVE to have the wretched vents, I just hope I can find a mechanism that's well designed and made. I don't hold out much hope…
2 years ago we moved into a brand new house which has trickle vents fitted, we have had problems ever since. Even when closed they are not airtight so let in draughts and lots of noise. The noise issue goes the other way too – I can stand outside anyones house on my estate and listen to a private conversation the owners are having in thier own home!!! we have had the house builders round and the window fitters but have just been told they meet building regs etc and they will not take any further action… the window fitter… Read more »
Trickle vents installed on windows, due to airflow, sound waves that permeate and resonate inside the glass, the noise becomes extremely clear. In some cases,people can hear other households nearby through their glasses. Even though the trickle vents have been closed, they still let in a lot of noise.
Suggestions from some professionals:
Without much changes, unscrew the airvent, stuff inside with foam or Backer Rod, and tape around the airvent with pvc electric insulation tape inside and outside. In this way, it will reduce noise.
I live on a new build estate that has Anglia double glazed windows with Trickle Vents. I wake up in the morning hearing people talking outside. Their speech can be clearly heard and when I go to check to see if the window is open, because that’s what it sounds like, I fnd the window and the Trickle vent are shut tight. I think that the sound and insulation properties of these Anglia windows are very poor and I am more than a little disappointed to find that on a new build house the qualities of the windows are worse… Read more »
I am replying to recent comments on new build home that have “Trickle Vents” installed in the windows. We have lived on a new Taylor Wimpey estate coming up to three years, our house in not in the estate but is located along the road just off the entrance of the estate with four other of the new houses. We have complained since moving in, about the road noise that’s coming from these windows, and the draught coming through them. We can also relate to the hearing of conversations by people passing the house walking, we have always wondered that… Read more »
Hi Thomas/all I’d just been googling trickle vents and saw your post… It seems a common problem we moved into a brand new Taylor Wimpey development six months ago and have nothing nut trouble with the windows, the draught is bad enough but the fact I can hear my neighbours word for word or my washing machine spinning if I’m stood outside is ridiculous. We are on an estate of 60+ properties and are on the only entrance road into the estate so we hear each and every car, so disappointed as we to paid a fair but for the… Read more »
Hello I live on a new Bovis estate and i cannot believe the level of road noise that comes through our vents. It is outrageous that they are deemed acceptable! The NHBC arent able to help as they meet technical requirements!
Ask dgb for a quote on new windows without t/vents
“We sell trickle vents at a price of £15 per vent (inc VAT 15%)” How have you managed to circumvent the more traditional 20% VAT rate?
Look at the date of the article ;-)
We are having the opposite problem where dont have trickle vents and have massive condensation problems in our flat with water dripping off the corner ceilings. Apparently trickle vents sort this problem out and I wish that the previous owner who isntalled them had been told this at the time!
Get some trickle vents retro fitted, get a builder to install some air bricks or air vents or could buy a sealed unit with a vent axial style fan built into it there’s many solutionsto your problem Kelly
The joke is that if you buy an A rated window it was not tested with a trickle vent so you actually get a G rated or fail window as it would not pass and give any rating at all.
So my advice is don’t bother with them.
Oh and where are trading standards!!!!!!!
What a crock.
We are in the process of choosing which company to go with for double or treble glazing. Currently, our old double glazing has problems with condensation and we thought that trickle vents would help to reduce or even eliminate this problem. In this case, are trickle vents worth consideration?
As a trickle vent manufacturer you would expect me to advocate the installation of trickle vents. The posts so far highlight the problem with the installation and use of the products. Currently the installation of trickle vents is a requirement of building regulations for new build properties AND if they are fitted on windows to be replaced they must be replaced to the same performance, otherwise building control can ask for them to be replaced. The basic rule of thumb requirement is 5000EQA per habitable room and 2500EQA in all others. All vents on the internal vent should mark this… Read more »
It’s so reassuring to hear so many people complain about trickle vents we have moved to a new Bovis home and have had the same experience with drafty vents. Our fuel bill has rocketed despite having a smaller house. we also wished we hadn’t bought a new house, this regulation is foolish, what’s wrong with opening a window. .We are waiting for the ingress of insects as our vents don’t seem to have any insect mesh. any suggestions?
The only way the trickle vents would be the issue here is if they were poor quality or specified incorrectly. There is a tendancy for over specification of background ventilation, take a look at the internal ventilator. Look for the EQA rating on the vent and add it up per room. The rule of thumb is 5000 EQA per room. In smaller non habitable rooms 2500 EQA (toilets etc). This would over ventilate a room. However, all the vents should be closeable and prevent drafts, indeed they should be designed so you cannot feel the draft to meet the regulations.… Read more »
Hi Dean, I have also just moved into a new Bovis Homes House with trickle vents. My old house had 25 yr old double glazing and my new house is more draughty. Are you saying if trickle vents are fitted properly and closed you should not feel a draught? To be honest with you, i am horrified with the performance of these new windows.
Thanks
Mark
Mark, The trickle vent is an often maligned and mis-understood product. Your house maybe more drafty but it may also be me a healthier environment and the trickle vent may not actually be the cause of the drafts. For example I have a room at home that is drafty, but the cause is the location of the only radiator on the opposite wall to the windows creating a thermal wind! The trickle vents are designed to deflect the airflow away from the occupier of the property. In essence you should not feel the draft even in the open position, except… Read more »
Three years ago we had all windows in our house replaced with aluminium double glazed ones with trickle vents. We have had no problems whatsoever with the trickle vents and I enjoy the lack of any stuffiness in the house but I have not noticed any draughts, even where there are venetian blinds on the windows. We are also lucky in living in a very quiet area so noise is not an issue. Perhaps we were lucky and had them installed properly.
Can I take the trickle vents off to put up blinds? It would not completely block the vent though!!
would you miss the ventilation the trickle vents offered? and if so, are you able to block the holes rather than leave the gap after the vent cover was taken off ?
There is , in reality, not a great lot of science to these things, lots of bluster , but you know your house .
We had new external insulation and rough casting done and the builder has covered up the double glazed window trickle vents on the outside. Is this likely to cause problems with condensation etc. I think I may have a problem getting builder to sort this out as it appears to be a huge job given he’s covered them all up.
The extension for our house built circa 2006 has trickle vents fitted to 2 of our bedroom windows. We live on an exposed site and a howling gale blows through the ventilators even when fully closed. The room was freezing in winter (it is howling through them today also). We still have mold on the wall above the window and condensation on the glass on cold mornings despite these drafts. Our other rooms don’t have them and are very cosy – with very little condensation Seems silly to fit these vents and let a lot of expensive warm air out.… Read more »
It’s been very enlightening to read all these posts about trickle vents, as 6 months ago I to had new Windows and trickle vents after replacing my 28year old Windows that the seals on the glass were broken.I live on a busy road with lorries and busses use all the time. Had my installer out to see what I have to put up with, even had the M D of the company up to see my noise and wind problem.I have been robbed off with,” well why did you ask for them, when I told him it’s was his salesman… Read more »
Hi,
Same issue here and was wondering what you ended up putting in the vents and whether it was effective for cold and noise issues you had?
I would love to know too, please! I live on a busy road with a poorly maintained surface and so the trickle vents let in all sorts of noise. No idea why the fitters put trickle vents in – it’s a victorian house and there’s plenty of ventilation anyway – but I’d love to know what you put in your vents to deal with the noise. I’ve looked all over for matching acoustic trickle vents of the same size as the ones which have been foisted on me, and can’t see any. Now – I just want to fix the… Read more »
i had a rated windows fitted in my house. i specified trickle vents on mine as i thought it was the right thing to do. since i live in a wind driven rain position and the house is quite exposed even when there shut they let in a massive gail and actually feel colder then the rubbish windows we had before when its not windy there ok. im having the back of the house done soon but im definitely not having trickle vents my house is very well insulated as its pretty old so ill take the risk i can… Read more »
We brought a retirement park home which is just on the coast of a place called walney near Barrow in Furness Cumbria we have eight window frames of which six of them are bay windows the other two are straight .the bay windows have two trickle vents in each bay the straight have one in each .in the living room is the worst the wind blows through the trickle vent although it’s closed off that the curtain moves.we brought this home off prestige we have had the engineers in to change the trickle vent and it’s still as bad our… Read more »
We have a new build property near Carlisle – built 4 years ago by Story Homes and uPVC double glazed windows with trickle vents supplied by World Group in Carlisle. The rear of our property faces south across a slightly rising field and hill. So when the prevailing south west wind blows strongly in winter, the trickle vents leak and cause draughts even when closed. So we duly report this to the builder and said the trickle vents were not fit for purpose: If the double glazed windows cause no draughts when closed then the same should be true for… Read more »
I wish I’d read all these posts before I had my new doors and windows installed as I would have thought twice about it. As I didn’t and I recently had the whole house fitted with new UPVC doors and windows by a reputable firm, my house is a total wind tunnel, particularly form the ankles to the knees. The trickle vents have all been taped up, as when not taped you might as well have the window open. I am quite disappointed, as the house with my old UPVC windows (20) years or so, wasn’t draughty at all. Don’t… Read more »
I am not suprised the glazier was not interested as they have gone bust twice since your windows were supplied. Although in the time honoured tradition they just setup again and continue to trade under the same trading name. Previous companies were actually Window World (WG) Ltd and also World (WG) Ltd, now mark 3 is WG Group Property Improvments Ltd T/A World Group. (DGB did a post on the fact they got a write up in the local paper explaining the benefits for them going into administration the 1st time) No wonder the double glazing industry gets such a… Read more »
i have just had a new window fitted and was not made aware of the Trickle Vent being fitted, but it was mentioned on the quote. being a bit ignorant on the matter, i thought what was being referred to was when one or more of the windows was opened but locked in the partial open position. it wasn’t until afterwards that i found out what the vent was. the company fitting this window used the ‘excuse/reason that without it black mould was produced around the edge of the double glazed panel. the stupidity of that argument being that the… Read more »
I think Trickle Vents are unpopular because they are often of low quality or badly installed, thereby reducing the insulation of double glazed windows. In our 14-year old house they are always open, and we don’t have problems with damp or foul smell, neither with noise. The only time we close them, is on a winter day when an arctic wind is blowing against the particular side of the house. It is important for our health to have a constant small amount of ventilation, just use common sense. No wonder so many people have allergies and asthma etc these days,… Read more »
our house is 200 yrs old and we have fitted wooden double glazed sash windows wih trickle vents. No problem with draughts except on the windiest days. There are gaps around the front door but the general air flow through the house prevents mould and smells so we put up with it knowing it is healthier.
Moved into our new build home just over a year ago. Initially the trickle vents served a purpose as the house settled but now we just don’t use them. The main issue I have is the amount of noise and air they let in, particularly the noise. At times it sounds like the windows are wide open.
Any ideas on how to best reduce it? Reluctant to have to pay out for new windows after such a short space of time!
New builds have to have trickle vents as standard fit.The only way to reduce the noise is to move
In reply to Lewis and Stevie, Builder can use better trickle vents and there are Acoustic Trickle Vents available, if Builder will not come back a local glazing company should be able to help.
New builds do not have to have trickle vents, if mechanical ventilation is fitted, which in my opinion should have been standard many years ago.
Unfortunately this has been an ongoing problem for years without a satisfactory solution. Building Regs are wanting healthier homes with a regular change of air to freshen up properties and provide healthy living. Customers want nothing of the sort, they block up air bricks, tape up vents and any gaps in windows. The industry is stuck between the two trying to sell something that to the customer doesn’t make any sense, why pay extra for an A rated window then have a hole to let in the cold? The new build windows provided to the trade are cheap and cheerful… Read more »
Jeff, Occupier education is the key as there is actually less heat loss than you would expect, this however depends on the type and design installed. Air quality in the property is the key as well as removal of the 2 litres of moisture we all breathe out inside our homes per day.
Garry, Trickle vents are required in new builds, it is just the required equivalent area that changes. Even with mechanical ventilation 2500 EQA is required per room, this is system 3 under the building regulations part F. ONLY system 4 – full mechanical heat recovery systems probably installed in a new build do not require any background ventilation. A retrofit system is unlikely due to the cost / disturbance
Dean, I did not state any brand / type of mechanical ventilation but as you say “full mechanical heat recovery systems” can be used, not good for people selling Trickle vents, but the industry needs to find a solution even if cheap trickle vents are removed from sale. Many consumers say they do not want them when replacing windows that already have them. Lost count of how many orders lost when saying they must have to comply with CPS regulations.
I’m waiting on a few quotes to fit some acoustic trickle vents to see if they make a difference. Initially I’ll just look to replace the one in the bedroom as that’s the one which is causing the most issues. First quote was £64 inc VAT to supply and fit which is more or less what I was expecting, but always worth shopping around of course.
I managed to find the trickle vents that are currently installed – looks like you can pick them up for £5…!
Hi, appreciate this is an old post but did you ever get the acoustic vents fitted. If so were you happy with the results and were there any issues getting them fitted..
Lewis the trickle vent is probably an old design. You could try the replacement vent Link vent DIY from Glazpart, 38Db open and 51 Db when closed this should reduce noise level depending on the rout size. This vent fits most 10 to 13mm mm rout sizes, also less draughty
Thanks Dean. I’m going to measure up then get in touch with Glazpart to see how much they are. I’m assuming that being a 2018 new-build the rout sizes would be fairly standard – and that they’ll be relatively easy to fit?
The trickle vents in my new triple glazing are not airtight, and you can feel the draft even when there is not much wind outside.
We want to take the company to the court to ask them to pay for the future heating costs.
Any thoughts?
Hi Eran There are a lot of questions here. Are the windows in a new-build or did the previous windows have them in? If so, by law the windows have to have them. The nature of trickle vents is to let air through constantly. Even when closed they will still let a small amount of air in. The point is to give homes background ventilation which benefits the house in terms of allowing moist, warmer air to exit the building and is better for the health of the person living in it. If you asked for them by request then… Read more »
Been in the pvc window industry 30 plus years and know dozens of people with the same amount of experience. This amounts to hundreds of years involvement with the design, manufacture, installation and remedial work on replacement windows.
THE COMPULSARY FITTING OF TRICKLE VENTS IS WRONG!!.
I would like to know who passed this legislation, someone with financial gain in trickle vents sales perhaps?
I have new d/g bay window with open trickle vents at the top of each window. I want to put the curtains back up but what will happen if I cover the vents? Will that cause condensation?