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I really have got the bit between my teeth on this issue, but it bugs me so I’m going to carry on talking about it.
I’m proposing a challenge: I’m asking those reps/companies who are currently signing up their contracts with little or no profit to come on here and explain why. I would like you to explain why, in a time of rising costs, you insist on bleeding your quotes dry of profit, to try and win the order? I know this has been going on for a good 18 months to two years, surely some of you are on the brink of collapse? Do you realize you have employees that rely on the business surviving so they can earn an income?
There are a lot of competitors of mine which are selling their wares for absolutely bugger all. Those who know who I am, know exactly who I’m talking about. This is your platform to come on here and respond to what I’ve said – if you’re really bothered about the people you employ and the businesses you’re supposed to be running responsibly.
It’s time to earn money, not become a ‘not for profit’ organisation!
I’m proposing a challenge: I’m asking those reps/companies who are currently signing up their contracts with little or no profit to come on here and explain why. I would like you to explain why, in a time of rising costs, you insist on bleeding your quotes dry of profit, to try and win the order? I know this has been going on for a good 18 months to two years, surely some of you are on the brink of collapse? Do you realize you have employees that rely on the business surviving so they can earn an income?
There are a lot of competitors of mine which are selling their wares for absolutely bugger all. Those who know who I am, know exactly who I’m talking about. This is your platform to come on here and respond to what I’ve said – if you’re really bothered about the people you employ and the businesses you’re supposed to be running responsibly.
It’s time to earn money, not become a ‘not for profit’ organisation!
>I totally agree, but they're not doing themselves any favours, its a short term solution for them.
>I'll add my bit in, just to show profit is possible. I sold a composite door yesterday for £940, there was no pressure sales, I was in and out of the customers house within 30 mins, and I didn't even follow up the call. This isn't/wasn't a "one off" I can't remember when I sold a Composite door for under £850, (i've even gone upto £1900 but that was a special door). The same goes for windows and doors, we have a set margin and we don't go below that. we get undercut on nearly every job we quote, but… Read more »
>this as been going on for years and is why the upvc industry is FUCK our products are not sold anymore just orders taken at any cost ..
>Anon – that seems the right price for a comp door, with a healthy profit margin. It's good that you have a set margin, one that you don't blow to pieces even when the competition are undercutting you.
David R – ever think this will change, or will stupidity always reign?
David B – what do you think is going to happen in Jan/Feb when the industry goes quiet?
>DGB, I think Jan & Feb will be the same as always. My main concern at the moment is the Water Authority legislation affecting conservatory builds, it could potentially slow down turnover across the industry and the additional cost for the consumer won't help. By the way, I think that price for a very basic composite door is an absolute minimum and not really enough. In my opinion, no composite door should be supplied and fitted for less than £1100 inc vat.
>This is a completely pointless post in my opinion, because we're all in the dark about who you are talking about. If it's a dig in the direction of the largest installer in the Wakefield area (and we both know who I'm talking about, but seen as though we're talking generally) then I would just say two things: Firstly, if that company is making healthy profits, then surely it's pricing policy is working. I know this to be the case. Secondly, you have no idea of the economies of scale and buying power of that company. You do not know… Read more »
>It is also worth noting that it is not just the sales persons that must charged with making profit. Every employee, from the person that sweeps the floor to the MD/Chairman, must be aware that profit is king. The purchasing department must constantly review materials used (without compromising the quality of product), office and shop floor staff must constantly be looking at ways to improve productivity. Fabricators and fitters must stop being wasteful. And the accounts department mustn’t let debts stand for too long. Giving product away is stupid and it just shows that companies that are doing this are… Read more »
>RCG – it's not pointless, as this site is a place to put my point of view across, not every post I do will have accurate info. You should know me by now, I like a rant once in a while! It's a bit of a dig at EVERYONE round here RCG. There are a lot of companies just playing the undercutting game. You point out things like buying power, break even points etc, but when quotes are different by several thousands of pounds between several different competitors, on a very regular basis, then you have to start wondering why… Read more »
>I agree that selling products / services at a loss is clearly not a good plan (unless you are in Tesco's league and have ulterior motives behind your actions).
I would also agree that composite doors should not be sold for under a £1,100.00 as they are a superior product to a UPVC door and the price should reflect that.
>GB
I`ve come up against this a few times recently. The customer has told me the price of a rivals quote (i have seen the writen quotes) I could not even buy the products for what they were quoting supply and fit.
Buying power or not, somethings not right there………
>I would never suggest that working at a loss is good business practice but I must say I can see why it happens. I’m not sure how I’d feel in 30 yrs (for example) if we’ve been running a successful business and we hit some hard times. Are we going to want to scale back and make people who have served us for years redundant..? Or would it be tempting to win some orders and keep things ticking over? I know it is just prolonging the inevitable but business is a bit of a gamble at the best of times…… Read more »
>I can remember working for a firm i won't name about 20 years ago, and they employed a consultant who explained that 80% of profits came from 20% of their jobs. So the company cut out the 80% loss making jobs and guess what, yep they went bump. sometimes you have to take work on just to pay your overheads, not every jobs gives you a healthy 45% GP. RIGHT THATS MY RANT OVER.
>I find it quite amusing that following RCG's aggressive reply about no one knowing what or who is being talked about, we then have a comment from Anonymous :)
>Nige – I know exactly what you mean. We laugh at some of the prices other companies provide. Like you say, buying power or not, when there is such a silly gulf of difference, something ain't right!
>I am Anonymous (on both posts) but i'm not who you think I am. i'm not even in direct competition with DGB (I trade in the Midlands)
>Surely the "right" price for a product is what it costs you to buy-in or manufacture, plus fitting costs, plus a representative chunk of your overheads, plus the profit margin you want to make. If that makes your price more than someone else's, it's up to you to explain why (quality, reliability, the fact that you're not a cowboy giving stuff away etc etc). Consumers aren't stupid – they know that, to a degree, you get what you pay for. I can't see how a small company fitting a composite door every now and then and a large regional fitting… Read more »
>Mike as hit the nail on the head..
I would probably sell this £1,100 door for £800/£950. I don`t go in will silly low prices,i just don`t have big overheads and sell/fit them myself. I don`t know for sure but would guess i`d make more profit from my door than the companies selling for £1,100..
#justsaying
>I dont work as a rep or in sales etc, but i could imagine selling at cost or at a loss now and then can be cheaper than advertising. Imagine taking out an ad in the paper, local tv, on the side of a bus etc some people will see, some will listen and some will stick their chewing gum in it. Supply and fit for cost or at a lost and fit it well with a quality product, the customer will tell friends/family "go to (company name) they supplied and fitted for x amount etc" The best advertising is… Read more »